Should Toronto Trade Ford for Kirilenko?
Posted on: March 19, 2008When the Raptors last consummated a trade with the Jazz, they sent Rafael Araujo to Utah and received Kris Humphries in return. It’s safe to say that at the time both teams made the trade because their respective players had essentially played themselves out of their respective markets. Humphries has stayed with Toronto and enjoys a role as a hustle player off the bench, while Araujo is toiling somewhere in the far reaches of Russia. While most people would say the Raptors came out on top with the deal, it was clearly a move due to chemistry.
Hoops Addict recently conducted an Inside Enemy Territory with My Utah Jazz, and it was suggested that since Andrei Kirilenko and T.J. Ford are frustrated with their current situations, they may be prime candidates in a swap deal. In fact, My Utah Jazz wrote up an article where they suggested it might be time to part ways with Kirilenko, going as far to say they should be entertaining offers involving players such as Ron Artest.
While other websites like Biased Fan have suggested a possible trade for Jose Calderon and a draft pick, the Raptors would clearly be the team coming out on the short end of the deal. Not to mention that the salary considerations would scuttle the deal instantly.
Realistically, the Raptors could seek a deal that would probably have to be structured in a way where the Jazz would get T.J. Ford and Rasho Nesterovic in exchange for Kirilenko, due to his max contract status that pays him roughly $15 million a year.
This deal would make sense for Utah because they would be getting a large contract that expires in a year in the form of Nesterovic’s contract, but more importantly, they would receive extremely well traveled and experienced big man. As one of the youngest teams in the league, an experienced player who has a championship ring would bring some experience to a perennial playoff contender. The Jazz would also secure a legitimate backup to Deron Williams, insuring that Williams will not experience burn out or wear down too easily due to the amount of minutes he’ll play as he gets older.
The Raptors, on the other hand, will get a near-seven footer who can fill up multiple stats at multiple positions while potentially threatening a triple-double on any given night. He would address several glaring issues including rebounding and defense, yet still be an offensive threat from both the inside and outside the paint.
There would have to be a lot of convincing on both ends, though. If the Raptors would deal for Kirilenko, they would need to be convinced that his volatile personality is a result of difficulties with Jerry Sloan, and not with criticism in general. He has also had a history back problems that have cut severely into his season in 2004-2005. On the other side, the Jazz would have to be convinced that Ford would be willing to come off the bench to support Deron Williams while also making sure to take care of his body and get a clean bill of health regarding his spinal stenosis.
The greatest difficulty towards consummating this deal is the length of the contract that Kirilenko still has remaining. With three more years on his max contract, the Raptors would be essentially taking on $45 million in contract that would be very difficult for them to move out from under should Kirilenko show some of the same discontent and inconsistency he’s shown in Utah. With Bryan Colangelo consistently emphasizing contract flexibility, this deal may not be a realistic option, especially if one considers the fact that Bargnani may still blossom into a near-max contract player. Also, with his price tag, Kirilenko would become the highest paid Raptor on the roster, but would clearly not be the number one option on the team. Would this cause friction between Kirilenko and Chris Bosh? Would it be a problem for those in upper management, who would see this as a possible “Jalen Rose” contract situation?
In addition, the Jazz as well as most other teams in the league are quite aware of Ford’s injury, and should the Raptors choose to entertain offers in this off season, the question has to be whether the perceived risk is outweighed by the need for a team to attain a starting point guard with unprecedented speed. Potential career ending injuries are a tough commodity to evaluate, and one has to wonder if his stock has dropped as a result of the uncertainty of his future health. Without knowing how many more injury free years he has left, he may no longer be an attractive leading point guard for teams around the league.
Nevertheless, it’s an interesting deal that would greatly address several needs that the Raptors have in one fell swoop. For that reason alone, deals in this vein should be worth exploring. If a deal of this caliber were to be consummated in the summer, it could make the Raptors a legitimate threat to the top teams in the Eastern Conference, which at the end of the day is the goal of the team and the organization.
March 19th, 2008 at 10:29 am
The problems that come up from the Utah side…
First… reading the Raptors blogs, it seems as if TJ would much rather be starting. That’s going to be an issue, because there is no way he starts with Deron here.
Second… TJ seems to be more of a shoot first PG. I don’t see how Jerry Sloan would react to that… but it probably wouldn’t involve Sloan welcoming TJ with a bear hug.
But if those are worked out (maybe a 3-team deal sending Ford elsewhere and netting the Jazz a different PG), I’d love for the team to add Nesterovic. He’s a better option than Collins, and Fesenko could learn behind him for a year before taking over as the primary back-up to Okur once Nesterovic’s contract expires. The PG we get (even if it is Ford) has got to be a better back-up than Hart, but this all goes to not if Price proves to be a capable back-up to Deron.
March 19th, 2008 at 10:50 am
No- No -No forget Kirilenko, too expensive, not what Rap’s require, another do too many things too few times. We have all we can handle of those now.
March 19th, 2008 at 10:50 am
[...] - HoopsAddict [...]
March 19th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Yeah, Kinnon, I don’t see Utah biting on that. Sure, you’re swapping injury-prone malcontents but, in addition to the above comments, TJ doesn’t fit into the half-court offence that the Jazz like to run.
Plus, Rasho is extremely valuable to the Raptors, despite his big contract. Bargnani particularly needs his veteran example at the 5.
That said, I’d love to see a starting lineup of Jose / new SG / AP / Kirilenko / Bosh.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
What about same deal but for Maggette instead - Clippers need a PG bad and TJ could start there, fixing that concern. Additionally, Maggette is cheaper and doesn’t really have attitude problems, but provides similar value to Kirilenko when taking in the ‘big picture.’ Thoughts?
March 19th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
I love the idea of bringing in Maggette.
I’ve wanted to see him in a Raptors uniform for two seasons now and his name is always rumoured to be going somewhere in the NBA, why not Toronto? It’d be a good fit for both clubs as he is exactly what I believe the Raptors need.
March 19th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Utes - Personally, I believe that Utah would come out of the deal a winner, if only for the fact that I believe the Raptors may undervalue Rasho Nesterovic at times. There aren’t many big serviceable centers at 8 million around the league.
Johnn19 - I believe that he could expand his game here though.
JeffW - I think AP stays in the lineup still. Let’s just say if Kapono and Moon were to come off the bench next year, I wouldn’t mind having a guy like Maggette or even Garbo in the front. Kinda strange to keep forgetting about Garbo…
Blake - I’d much more welcome that idea. I’ll get into it more in the offseason, but because the Jazz sites brought it up, we assessed it. I think he’s a better value too. If the Raptors could sign him for 9 to 10 million, I’d think that might be a good fit.
Gagan - Why not indeed. Jamison’s name has been banded about a bit too, but I’m not sure Washington will let him go. To me, he may be more valuable than Agent Zero.
March 19th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
No way the Jazz trade Kirilenko. He hasn’t said any negative things since August. And he is still playing really well for the jazz.
March 19th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
I can think of 45 million reasons why that move isn’t a fit for the Raptors. AK47 is top 20 in NBA nicknames, but he definitely doesn’t warrant the top 20 salary he currently pulls down. However, when your dealing in expiring contracts, your usually taking on another teams ill-fitting piece. When you look for ill-fitting pieces, Kirilenko jumps off the page, esp. considering they’ve got to show deron the money this coming off-season.
Maggette, book it. At first I thought the constant mentions of his ball hogging would make him a blow to team chemistry. Plus his constant driving style means he’s lost a signicant amount of games to injuries over his career. However, on the other hand, everything about him contrasts with what the rest of the Raptors do, and in a good way. Plus the way the Raptor’s are structured, they make it very hard for opposing teams to double an inside player. Maggette in single coverage would be worth his weight in FT opportunites.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Unless the GM’s for other those teams suddenly start doing ‘crack’ … there’s no way they do a deal involving a PG like TJ Ford for a multi-dimensional player like Kirilenko or Maggette.
In general, Raptors fans have a poor sense of what a player like Ford is worth on the open market, in today’s NBA.
March 22nd, 2008 at 10:35 am
are you kidding me… AK47, wouldn’t push the raps over the and why would the Jazz want to pay a back up PG a starters salary??? The raps need to package TJ and Andrea for a swing who can attack the basket and defend the 2’s and 3’s…
March 22nd, 2008 at 11:43 am
Khandor - I wouldn’t say Ford for Maggette would go through, but the fact remains that Ford is a player that can have more value than thought of due to the general need in the league for point guards. Not saying that with his health issues that he’ll be a viable option for all teams, but it might just take one or two crazy GMs that absolutely NEED a point guard to go after him.
That being said, I still pointed out that Ford’s stock might be very low due to his possibility of future injury.
March 22nd, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Kinnon,
I agree that Ford is imminently tradable.
Where I disagree is with those who think that what would be coming back Toronto’s way is a multi-dimensional 1st-string player like AK47 or Maggette.
On the Raptors recent Western Conference road-trip, TJ Ford was outplayed, straight-up, by … ‘Ronnie Price’.
Think about that for more than a second.
March 23rd, 2008 at 8:32 am
Khandor - Is one game going to matter to everyone that badly? Especially when it was widely acknowledged that Ford’s greatest weakness is his ego in the face of having to come off the bench lately, and not getting calls in Utah? I honestly don’t think so. Teams have scouts, who do their research, so I don’t believe for one second that the western string can be looked upon as anything but an anomaly.
March 23rd, 2008 at 10:37 am
Kinnon,
I cited one game for you so that you would have some tangible evidence, in advance, for what I’m about to say next.
Paying TJ Ford $8 mill/yr to be a PG in the NBA is a waste of $$$ in comparison to what the Jazz are paying Ronnie Price.
If you took Ronnie Price off Utah’s squad and traded him straight-up for TJ Ford … it would be the Raptors who (in fact) get the better end of the deal.
i.e. Jose Calderon & Ronnie Price = How much money spent for the Raptors? … vs Deron Williams & TJ Ford = How much money spent for the Jazz?
If the Raptors played 82 games with the combination of Calderon & Price as their two Point Guards … with the rest of Toronto’s current roster remaining the same as it right now … the Raptors would end up winning 10 more games than they will with the combination of Calderon & Ford … while Utah would end up winning 3-5 FEWER games with the combination of Deron Williams & TJ Ford running their team in comparison to the combo of Deron & Ronnie.
If you doubt the veracity of what I’m saying … go ahead and conduct an interview with Jerry Sloan (for a subsequent article?) and ask him this exact question:
“Mr. Sloan, would you be interested in trading Ronnie Price, straight-up, for TJ Ford, yes or no?”
Then write a follow-up article about what Mr. Sloan’s answer is to that exact question.
If Jerry Sloan answers that exact question as I think he would … you (and the majority of die-hard Raptors’ fans) might be shocked and you would get a much better sense of what a top notch NBA coach’s perspective is regarding the ‘value’ of TJ Ford for an elite level team in the NBA.
At $8 mill/year … TJ Ford is a grossly over-paid back-up PG who isn’t as useful to an elite level NBA team as are a slew of other serviceable players at this same spot, in the NBA today … e.g. Ronnie Price (at the low end), Jacque Vaughan, Jennaro Pargo, Louis Williams, Jordan Farmar, Anthony Johnson, Bobby Jackson, Antonio Daniels, Jason Terry, Rodney Stuckey & Leandro Barbosa (at the high end).
Over the course of 82 games … Ronnie Price is a better ‘investment’ for an elite level NBA team, at the PG spot, than is TJ Ford.
March 23rd, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Khandor - You’re misreading what I’m saying. I’m not saying TJ would fit a Sloan-driven team. But that around the NBA in general, his market value may be higher than believed just for the sole fact that there’s a shortage of point guards in the league. Obviously, this isn’t the case in UTAH, but the Clippers, Hawks, Magic and others all need a top-tier PG to help their teams. Therefore, TJ’s worth may increase just due to a shortage of supply.
March 23rd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Kinnon,
I think you might be mis-reading what I’m saying.
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re: Obviously, this isn’t the case in UTAH, but the Clippers, Hawks, Magic and others all need a top-tier PG to help their teams.
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Due to Ford’s limitations as a PG in the NBA … plus his injury status … plus his inflated contract status … plus his reluctance to accept a back-up role (should the circumstances dictate that with his team) … even outfits like the Clippers, Hawks and Magic may NOT have very much interest in acquiring him.
You think Ford is a top-tier PG in the NBA, I do not.
In fact, he does not appear anywhere in my ‘Top 10 List of PG’s in the game today’.
March 24th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Khandor - Nor does he fit in in my top 10 list. I just believe there are enough wishful thinking GMs in the league that a possible deal may be available more than you believe it to be. How many times have we seen the Knicks alone take a chance on a player? I’ve seen the Raptors management have some wishful thinking in resigning certain players and it’s just going to continue to happen. When you see a need as a GM, and there’s pressure to make a change, you’re going to compromise. Add to the fact that I don’t believe any other position in the league is more of a compromise than the point guard position.
After all, just to illustrate my point, most of the “point guards” you’ve mentioned are old, or not true point guards. Leandro Barbosa is classified as one in my Fantasy Pool, but there’s no way that I’d consider him in that capacity more than I’d say Carlos Delfino is one.
Yes, there are those that would argue that Ford is possibly in the same vein as a Jason Terry but I’ve seen Ford also play a very balanced game, which would appeal to many managers. I’m not the only one that remembers that more than a few coaches have mentioned Ford’s ability as a top tier guard, and I’m just saying it takes just even one mind to believe. I don’t think for one minute that the entire league is filled with Jerry Sloans, or Gregg Popovichs.
March 24th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Kinnon,
I can see the sense of what you’re saying there.
Mathematically speaking … i.e. all it takes is 1 of 30 … the chances are still pretty good that the Raptors might be able to peddle Ford to a poor GM who doesn’t actually know what he’s doing … in exchange for something of value to Toronto’s team.
This much I agree with.